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Poll :: do you prefer to shoot the neutral trader passing by or just let is pass

shoot the mofo!
42%
 42%  [ 27 ]
just leave him be
57%
 57%  [ 37 ]
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 28.05.08 23:05
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@Nicku
I did get your point, a bit politeness here and there can make a huge difference, not just when asking for game currency. The little speech above I came up with some time ago, but never had the opportunity for live field tests. At least now it's written down, in some place I can hardly forget, so chances are some day I actually may be using it

Yeah, the magic word; in german, it's got two "t". >Flott< !! Twisted Evil

@rada
Thank you Very Happy

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 29.05.08 02:01
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Well, I pay tax most of the time, except to uSF since I payed a tax and got immediately taxed with the same amount again. I don't see why I should pay a second tax when I haven't even earned as much as desired. And if i would pay the second what stops a pirate to tax a third or a fourth time?

If a taxer wants more tax than he can desire with the /tax command he can just write it before and/or use a trade request. Now, you pay the desired tax in good thoughts without expecting that he even wants more, also in mind that the desired value of tax is endurable, and suddenly get taxed again which you can't pay or wouldn't pay because it would make your route or last missions senseless, you also would never have paid even the first tax.
So: Pirate got one tax + Commodities after shooting

That's not a fair usage of the /tax command. Besides it's absolutely brazen to desire tax only to desire even more tax after recieve of the first one.

mfg NANO

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 29.05.08 13:38
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

NANO hat folgendes geschrieben:
Well, I pay tax most of the time, except to uSF since I payed a tax and got immediately taxed with the same amount again. I don't see why I should pay a second tax when I haven't even earned as much as desired. And if i would pay the second what stops a pirate to tax a third or a fourth time?

I can't understand your problem with uSF, normally we don't shoot or tax taxed players again, if anyone does so, tell him you paid and everything will be allright.

Even enemys can pay tax, I think that's very fair

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 29.05.08 15:46
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But your Patrouille_Bretonia wasn't really interested in talking, so he let the guns speak even when I was trying to type. And well, I already payed the tax of 250 k. The second tax I couldn't really pay.
If you clearly see it, I would get 250 k back, because I couldn't pay 500 k. For what ever he took those 250 k it wasn't for my release.

PhiXX hat folgendes geschrieben:
Even enemys can pay tax, I think that's very fair


Right, but since when I am an extra uSF enemy on special? I don't see the point when uSF member like Patrouille_"" and (]]]]]]][[[[[[) F1 after all my chars that I try to use and then don't have the right to fight back and in addition to become your guinea pig.

Edit:Ok, perhaps (]]]]]]][[[[[[) is not part of your clan, I couldn't find out yet.

mfg NANO
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 30.05.08 09:56
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I kill for fun, not for the money. They won't pay anyway Wink

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 30.05.08 12:42
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

For Traders:
If you pay attention on the commodities the trader carries and tax an bearable amount of tax I think everyone would pay the tax.

For Fighters:
Unlike for fighters which can be taxed at any amount, because in my opinion they are able to fight back, or even have a chance to escape. Besides they shouldn't fly into someone's territory without skill, or weapons. Then it's natural that an invader have to pay a high tax.
In mind: Who can buy an Eagle and equipment is also able to pay a tax, since it isn't that difficult to earn money on the HHC.

mfg NANO
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 30.05.08 17:52
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

NANO hat folgendes geschrieben:
For Traders:
If you pay attention on the commodities the trader carries and tax an bearable amount of tax I think everyone would pay the tax.


no.

my experience is that if i tax, many wont pay even if they make way more profit at the next base.

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HerrGott





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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 30.05.08 20:51
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yes, that is called ego Razz
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 01:34
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

witchhunter hat folgendes geschrieben:
NANO hat folgendes geschrieben:
For Traders:
If you pay attention on the commodities the trader carries and tax an bearable amount of tax I think everyone would pay the tax.


no.

my experience is that if i tax, many wont pay even if they make way more profit at the next base.


Then shoot them down and sell their commodities, but don't stop following the RPG with stopping the taxing, since all cry for more RPG. Even those who respect the RPG and pay shouldn't pay for those stupids who doesn't want follow any RPG.

Zitat:
I kill for fun, not for the money. They won't pay anyway Wink


Perhaps because of that behavior no one wants to pay tax anymore...

PS: @Patrouille_*: To tax a player with 250 k who carries water for 17 k is just lame^^

mfg NANO
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 09:21
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NANO hat folgendes geschrieben:
To tax a player with 250 k who carries water for 17 k is just lame^^

That would most likely be a clanmission. Clanmission -> kill on sight Banana Rider

I almost always tax 300k, because even these 300k are not much money, and in the time I tax people, i often fight. And this costs money too.
Pirates think economically

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 10:44
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And that's the problem: pirates want cash without having to work for it. Killing a freighter, not selling the loot but still complaining about a /tax request not accepted.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 10:48
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Lasse Blutströmen hat folgendes geschrieben:
And that's the problem: pirates want cash without having to work for it. Killing a freighter, not selling the loot but still complaining about a /tax request not accepted.

I cant speak for other people, but I myself sell the loot, and the taxed has (if he/her paid) 24h freeflight, so this should be enough time to get those 300k back by trading/flying missis

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 12:56
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imo discussing basic rpg questions is not very useful as long as rpg is based on f1. that includes all factions, not just the traders. they are already punished for f1 by being killed by the server, but the basic idea of rpg is a bit different.

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HerrGott





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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 13:16
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what do you mean by that, witchhunter?

That traders should be FORCED by the game to pay tax when asked? Is that more RPG-ish?

Phixx, it's enough for 10 pirates to want tax from you to ruin your whole day. How much time does it take to get 3M back? so you pay tax just to what? have free flight for 24 hours in which you have to play as if you had no real life just to get the credits back?

What guarantee does a taxee have that the one taxing him, say, uSF, since this is the only pirate clan I know, won't inform all of his uSF friends that there's a good victim in system X?

What guarantee does a taxee have that if they pay tax they don't get killed?

What guarantee does a taxee have that if they pay a tax, they aren't asked for a second tax from the same person?

WH, I'd rather accept getting killed, than accept the humiliation of being taxed, and the possible further humiliations and nuisances described in the "what guarantee" list.

I'll tell you what I don't like:

1. I don't like the fact that if a fighter gets taxed and refuses to pay, the following fight can last for 30 or more pointless minutes. Some system should be implemented here. I've already noticed that in new york, players can't damage each other. Make it so that after a tax req is issued and answered either by payment, or by choice of "Fight for tax", the taxer can't harm the taxee anymore. Although this is probably stupid because...

...2. more chars means that no matter what you want to do, the taxer can follow you to your new system.

Yes, let's talk about the patrouille, since this is an easy example. You just payed tax to Patrouille Rheinland for instance, and after 10 minutes, you decide to switch your character to the one in Kusari.... boing... Patrouille Kusari pops up like a plague and taxes again... (pls note, this isn't a real example of something that has happened, just using these names cause they're easy to follow)

I mean, sure, there are some things that are annoying for pirates, mostly fighter vs pirate, situations which are usually profitless for both parties, but most things are unfavorable to non-pirates. The "what guarantee" list should say something, and the fast switching of chars should say something about how imbalanced this is.


One more thing: The "What guarantee" list mostly wants to say to all people getting taxed: Screw the pirates Razz You take too many risks even by paying the tax, so at least don't give the taxer anything"

Too bad the taxer gets your cargo, but you don't get anything if you manage to defeat your taxer.[/b]
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 13:22
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That's why I'd like to have /tax fights, as mentioned on page two of this thread. Traders won't get any additional disadvantages, while terrorists / pirates are brought a similar set of rules. /tax should involve a certain risk for pirates, too. If they /tax, there should be a chance that it turns around and bites the pirate in the ass, if traders organize themselves a bit better.

:Edit
Making a trader unkillable after he was successfully taxed isn't a solution. It has to be considered that the game has terrorists, too. If said option would be integrated, terrorists would be out of job. It's here, where the RPG should be encouraged. If terrorists destroy traders after they have paid their taxes, traders start to not paying anymore, not even to pirates who would let their victims go after having taxed them. So pirates should, in order to keep their /tax market relatively healthy, fight terrorists, since it's in their own interest. This would lower terrorist attacks greatly, aiding the pirates in their cause, however that is not being done.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 14:01
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I didn't say unkillable, just unattackable by their taxer, and only by their taxer, although it would be nice if they were unattackable by all chars from the IP of the taxer for a certain period of time. AFTER of course, the tax situation between the two players was solved in one way or another.

You are right about the terrorists though, and you have given me an idea.

Anyway, pirate victims, please remember that NOTHING will stop a player which you don't know as friendly from:

-taxing you more than once in a very short period
-telling their friends where to find you and ask you for tax/kill you
-killing you after already having payed tax

Keep these in mind when you decide to use the "/acc" command

There you have it, have a nice day, dear pirates Very Happy
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 14:25
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how about if the taxed wins the taxer couldn't damage him for around 10 minutes. So he can escape.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 15:24
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one more thing has come to my attention:

pirates normally target traders
terrorists normally target everything, but traders as well
anti-pirates' best way of fighting the pirates is by persuading the pirate victims not to pay tax to pirates anymore, which would be by taxing and then killing traders

Considering that getting killed doesn't mean much, just killing pirates isn't a real tactic against them.

So... another question arises... what advantage do traders have? I've noticed that by doing "assasinate" missions, one can get a lot more money a lot faster than a trader, so what's there to stop traders from disappearing?

(You can basically do a 200k assasinate mission every 5-10 minutes if you're lucky not to have to kill 2 groups before getting to your target, I mean, just go to destination, kill the target, and let yourself get killed afterwards, when you can just start another mission)
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 15:26
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HerrGott hat folgendes geschrieben:
so what's there to stop traders from disappearing?

they don't like fighting Wink

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 15:31
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@HerrGott: use Convoy/Escort function it gives free money ! Traders are supposed to get escort into dangerous areas. Just look at NPCs, they always have escorts even pirates.
But maybe the problem is there aren't many escort players.

And there are maybe 5 ppl here that actually pay tax.

@Lasse: What if you are nowhere close to a selling point of the goods, the trader droped? Then you could only cash 70 cargo, because the rest would be gone by the time you get back.

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HerrGott





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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 15:35
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Hawc, I don't usually do trading, unless when I'm quite certain there are no pirates, most of the times, I just go fighting , I was talking here because I consider that the roles are imbalanced.

Particularly the fact that pirates have NOTHING to lose except for a bit of time.
As for convoy/escort... what are those supposed to be? I think I've used the escort command, but what about the convoy?

Is it possible for instance to get NPC escorts?
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 15:50
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Hawc hat folgendes geschrieben:
@Lasse: What if you are nowhere close to a selling point of the goods, the trader droped? Then you could only cash 70 cargo, because the rest would be gone by the time you get back.
Occupational risk Razz Why did you have to shoot the trader in a location that doesn't allow for coming back to get the rest of the cargo?

That's what I keep saying, pirates seem to want instant cash without any effort. Would it have been possible to wait for the trader to show up in a good spot? Yes. Would it have been possible to convince the trader to help him, accompany him to a place that allows for easy pickup of the goods and raid him there? Yes.

The thing pirates should be made aware of, is that by taxing they will never have the same profit per hour as a trader, but they seem hell bent to make it happen anyways.

Being a pirate in this game is not about having an income through taxes, but to deceive a victim, make it feel safe and comfortable, until it's the right time to strike. It's about the hunt, with cash being the prize for victory, not the other way around.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 16:25
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HerrGott hat folgendes geschrieben:
what do you mean by that, witchhunter?

That traders should be FORCED by the game to pay tax when asked? Is that more RPG-ish?


i said that they are somehow already forced to do so.

this server is mainly a pvp server, and many people just come here to do exactly that. so also the amount of people that play a role/try to play a role/are paying attention to roleplay is kind of low.
f1 = no roleplay
tax/paying/fighting = a minor part of roleplay
creating a consistent behavior/plot for your character and interaction (not to force them to show a certain reaction!) with other characters = roleplay

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Hawc





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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 31.05.08 16:51
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If you wait at a spot like you said you would have to wait for hours for someone to show up. When i seek to tax i choose a player from chat and then go after him, and wait at a first possible place where he might go.
Being a pirate is not about deceiveing, because ppl know who is pirate and who isn't. And you are right, its about the hunt not the money.

If you are a trader then you can go to a station, buy stuff and type /convoy. Then if you are in group with the convoy starter you can dock at that station, type /escort name and when you dock at the end station you get money from the server.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 10.06.08 15:14
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