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Cliff
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Beitrag Titel: Dobermann banned
Verfasst am: 25.07.10 20:53
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Hello
Admins, why did you ban Doberman chars!? There are 2 people (Vic and his wife Sun) sharing one ip. I know them well in RL, they are my friends. Besides that it is obvious that one person can’t use two eagles in fight at the same time (yes, they are both in fight, its not true that one is still while the other is fighting). It looks like yet another way to show RIPs that they are not welcome on HC. Though it seems to me that admins’ attention is more required in some other issues, e.g. use of programs that “help” some pilots to gain enormous skills in about a month of playing. If you start to ban all chars using the same names for different pilots, you will have to ban at least 4 clans (e.g. USAF’’’’’’’’’, STE’’’’’’’’, WA Colonial, RIP~|~|~|~| and more).

P.S. Maybe I should be banned too, cause I also share the same ip with my wife (CorpseBride) to play on HC.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 25.07.10 21:12
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Admins think that one man can fight on two fighters at one time (( and subjective attitude is big power ((

PS i have char |R.I.P|`DOBERMANN`- im banned too?
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 25.07.10 21:22
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

You are the third person that contacts the admin team about that subject.
More is not better - its only more annoying ...

This is what i sent Doberman himself:
Zitat:
I do believe that you are two people. But i know that you also like to play alone with two computers and thats why you got banned.
You don't hide that. You play with one char the other doesn't move as soon as you die your using the second one.

Thats not tolerable. We made a rule to allow you play both and you are abusing it - know you have to face the consequences.


One more note:
If you have a proof that somebody cheats. Send it to the admin team using PN.
Public accusations about cheating are not welcome and might result in getting banned .
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 25.07.10 21:40
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Nosferatu hat folgendes geschrieben:

If you have a proof that somebody cheats. Send it to the admin team using PN.
Public accusations about cheating are not welcome and might result in getting banned .


Who said "cheat"? The problem is why u ban two people?
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Beitrag Titel: Re: Dobermann banned
Verfasst am: 25.07.10 21:41
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Cliff hat folgendes geschrieben:
If you start to ban all chars using the same names for different pilots, you will have to ban at least 4 clans (e.g. USAF’’’’’’’’’, STE’’’’’’’’, WA Colonial, RIP~|~|~|~| and more)


Im sry for posting here, just to explain it:
We use 301st./181st./205th.ANF-Alliance with different L and i's, correct.
But, you can check if there are 1, 2 or 3 people playing, with /ping.
You will never see 2 Alliance chars of us which have the same ping, the same fluct, lag, loss.
That means there are 2 different players.
If there are 2 Chars, called similar, and they have similar ping/fluct/loss/lag, it means -> 1 Person. For being absolutely sure, the admins can confirm that with their posibilities as well.
(my english isn't the best one but I think its readable)
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 25.07.10 21:48
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I want say lol for ur mesaage. Two people live together (husband and wife) - how they can have different ip, ping lag and so on? or one of them must go to internet cafe to play on hhc?
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 25.07.10 21:53
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

I just explained why you cant bann this 4 clans for using similar names.
To answer your new question, look at the quote in nosferatus post again.

2. time sry @ Admins, was the last one.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 25.07.10 21:57
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I saw answer of Nosferatu but cant get sense why they had banned different people (
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 25.07.10 21:59
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To Nosferatu: the point is that BOTH eagles were in fight, tell me please who told you that one was not moving? It could be only in PVP when one waits for his turn, but not in battle between clans. You cant make any profit of two eagles in game, what is the point for this? This ban is unfair, please unban the chars.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 25.07.10 22:12
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You can't rule out the possibility that 2 pilots may be playing on the server under the same roof either.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 26.07.10 07:24
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Sorry for post here, but if its new rule what forbid to player use 2 accounts in the same time? I remember here was big discussion about this, Sokar was main opponent of such behavior, he proved that its infair when player is trading on 2 ID s in one time (and you know, not so few players use 2 or more ID at the same time.)

So, even if one RIP-member use 2 IDs at the same time, its bannable?
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 26.07.10 11:10
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Sorry admins but you people miss Nosferatu's point.

He explained that playing with the characters from the same IP IS NOT BANABLE if there are 2 different persons controlling them.

Although he DID SAY that playing with 2 CHARACTERS controlled by 1 PERSON it is an abuse and it should be banned.

Shortly put, they didn't get banned because they both played at the same time,they god banned cause there was the possibility that JUST ONE of them could use the both PC's while the other is not there,so basically having 2 characters on controlled by the same person.

READ THOROUGHLY before you post asking why they got banned.


Zuletzt bearbeitet von Anshar am 26.07.10 15:03, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 26.07.10 11:30
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Dear Nosferatu,

First, let me repost my initial letter to you, just in case to be polite to other readers:
Zitat:

Dear Admin,

I was really disappointed to see this one more time:
|R.I.P|<<<DOBERMANN>>>/|R.I.P|<<DOBERMANN>> 24.07.10 (wiederholt doppelt eingeloggt)

I don't want to flame or start annoying debate. Once we did it, however still have a doubts. I just consider this ban is a crucial mistake as we step on the same rake.

But ok, we agree with you to that point. We are players, you are admin. So in that way. tell us please what will be the truthful proof to your own!?
We are ready to demonstrate, that there are two people(couple btw), two heads, four hands!!! We hope only to common sense.

We are looking forward to seeing YOUR SUGGESTION how to resolve this problem.

Kind regards,


now all things go one after another, and our repost looks more sensible:
Zitat:

This is what i sent Doberman himself:
I do believe that you are two people. But i know that you also like to play alone with two computers and thats why you got banned.
You don't hide that. You play with one char the other doesn't move as soon as you die your using the second one.

Thats not tolerable. We made a rule to allow you play both and you are abusing it - know you have to face the consequences.


Second, we'd like to say thank you that admit our presence as two separate people in game, thereby show to all of us the real reason of this particular ban.

Third, as it is now clear with ban purpose let me clarify what was happend that day. I hope this will help you to comprehend with the facts as they are:
The following chars |R.I.P|<<<DOBERMANN>>> , |R.I.P|<<DOBERMANN>> are banned. It means FR~N~D and FR~N~F are deactivated as well and
I suppose exactly these char names are become kinda sticky point here, aren't they? Well, I guess they are! So, in that way there are some more facts
to complete my conception.
My friend Bono (that day Late_September), my wife Kroha (FR~N~F) and I (FR~N~D) were hunting on OSO BS. Bono and Kroha were waiting at Theta
upon BS wasn't spoted while I and someone called H!sM0th3r striked at Alpha. Bono and Kroha stayed at Theta, therefore they didn't act!
Nothing to doubt, we do a fair game! It is a groundless blame that someone hides something. What do I have to hide!? My wife? She is playing with me and
I so pleased, this is great because we are family! If this cheeking up youth from OSO or USAF do not want to realise this simple stuff, we do not care, this
is their own business. Even if they do not like, this is my family! Time arranges everything right.

Fourth, there is an activity dip on server now, perhaps due to season stuff (I don't have a server statistic for previous summer terms) anyway, why do we need
a useless reasons to make fair acting pilots lose their interest in playing here? Do we have much couples in game here on HHC? Cliff and Kali, Bono and Kamila
these all I know, are you going to ban all of them?

Finally, we are still looking forward to seeing YOUR SUGGESTION how to RESOLVE this precedent! This is not a deal to ban straightly two fair playing pilotes if
it appears to somebody something provoking.

Thanks,

P.S: Thanks to my wife and Bono helped me with my English.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 26.07.10 13:27
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Dear All,

Totally agree with my friend! Fully support him and his wife on their effort to prove to the community and admins that they both playing honestly, as always do!

Stop spoiling the game by such a ridiculous issue!!! Game that we like so much!!!

My wife is not skilled as good as Kroha but when she will have a bit more time to help me she does! And what we are going to have!!! Abuses, suspects...

Nosfu, it will be beneficial to reveal the name of this shady person who provokes and stimulates dirty interest to my friend Dobermann! We are not arguing here just fo fun!!!
We against human arrogance and incitement!!! There are second ban on RIP side less than in two months just cuz as we said before something appears to somebody provoking!

You are an admin and you have the right to ban, we are the players and we have our right to prove our innocent! Where are all these pilots whos made an insult thing or used
prohibited stuff - keeping silent, as they broke the law and realise that very well!!! We are here cuz someone tries adapt the law against us!

I hope we all will stay calm and take an advantage of such a helpful solution by Anshar "READ ALL THOROUGHLY".

Thank you all for your understanding,
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 26.07.10 15:05
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Well isn't there a couple also playing in FOF? I know they are inactive but when Browneye and her husband plus their child would play, would you ban them now too? Who would prove that really 2 or 3 persons play. I think this ban was requested with the intention to get rid of an enemy, nothing more. It is hhc style and sadly it did not change and maybe never will.
On the other hand I know that the decision is not easy for the Admins.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 26.07.10 15:57
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[APHEX] hat folgendes geschrieben:
I think this ban was requested with the intention to get rid of an enemy, nothing more. It is hhc style and sadly it did not change and maybe never will.


From what I've read in the ban forums, a lot of cases held against other players agree with this statement. The decision isn't easy, I've had the same experience back in my time. But if they say they are more than one player on the same IP, I believe the chance should be given to prove it.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 26.07.10 22:29
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First: Please remember that this is the banned Section of our forum. If your are not directly involved into this incident please stay away from this discussion.
( http://www.freelancerserver.de/v2/topic,9607_Verhaltensregeln_Code_of_behaviour.html )

@Doberman
I just rechecked our logs.
According to them your wifes ID was used more on the computer you are using than on her own.
Thats one of the main reasons you are banned again.
I told you last time that i don't like the fact that your wifes char have been built by herself but instead were created by renaming your old chars.
Now the logs tell me that you are still moving IDs between your computers on a daily base.

Combined with the reports that came in about "strange behaviour" this lead to your ban.

I do believe that your wife plays freelancer. But you are using here chars too.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 27.07.10 15:24
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Dear Nosferatu,

My nickname here is Kroha, aka Sun in FL at HHC. As you might guessed I'm a Dobermann's wife.

As I got involved in ban incident being discussed I decided to post my point of view here too.
I began to play Freelancer mere some couples months ago and become a full member of RIP clan just recently.
Since the real game have started I faced with one big puzzle! On one side we get lots of joy and delightful minutes playing here together,
while from another it causes so many troubles and disappointments. I've never realized before that such thing is possible, wow this is
just a game for fun! Beside that it leads a normal pilot to a confusion, irritating headache whether he should stay or be away.

Two ids are banned that means 10 chars are innactive. It took a month of playing time here to my husband. Term of thirty days of fair
game has been wasted! I know you have got not an easy duty to take a doubtful decisions sometimes. But here it is not an ordinary
incident, it can't be resolved by simple act. Let's think as one team and create a statement or whatever which could help to avoid certain precedent.
After all the following is still unclear for us: Sad

1. What have to be done to unban our IDs?
2. How to leave out certain precedents further?

In addition, there is so sad to read cries of baseless astonishment and incitement during the game. Furthermore, it's not fair to newbies and just to normal
players as they come to spent their free time in upright atmosphere, unlike waste time on evidences. Neutral

I'm really looking forward to seeing answers on posed questions here.

Best wishes,

P.s: According to your last post, I understand your concern. I realised the fact of using husband's IDs as well. But please get me right that was just a deed of help,
now you see I build up all chars on my own just because of got skilled enough.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 27.07.10 21:24
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

I'll have to comment the last sentence first.
The fact that your chars have been built by your husband is not the problem. My problem is that I'm still picking signs that he is using your ID more than you (I'm talking about the last 30 days here)

Why are your chars used by two different computers?

About your questions:
1.) We have to finish this discussion, after that the chars will most likly be unbanned.
2.) Good question. Can someone please translate this? - I don't have enough time for that now.

Nosferatu hat folgendes geschrieben:
Grundsätzlich ist es nicht erwünscht das ein Spieler sich mit 2 Accounts gleichzeitig einloggt - einzige Ausnahme ist Doppelaccountnutzung zum Transfer von Waffen oder Geld.

Natürlich lässt sich schwer unterscheiden ob es sich um einen Spieler oder 2 mit der selben IP handelt.
Neben den technischen Einschränkungen (Formation, etc...) sollten "Pärchen" daher darauf achten das sie bei Basenverteidigungen beide mit Jägern kämpfen.
Jäger + Frachter oder Jäger + Capship Kombinationen werden wir ohne größere Prüfung einfach mal Verwarnbannen.

Des weiteren ist es äussert verdächtig wenn kein Eigenständiges Fl Leben nachgewiesen werden kann.
Dh. jede sollte mit seinen eigenen IDs spielen.
Ständiger Chartausch oder generell gemeinsam genutzte IDs sind ein schlechtes Zeichen...

Alles andere ist erlaubt und wird meistens nicht verfolgt werden.
Wenn es allerdings zu offensichtlich wird das Mißbrauch vorliegt werden wir trotzdem nach eigenem Ermessen einschreiten.

-------------

Ist natürlich ein Gummiparagraph - geht einfach nicht anders.
Wer mir eine bessere Lösung des Problems anbieten kann: Immer her damit.
Webcam, Foto, Ausweis interessiert uns nicht.
Mal abgesehen vom Administrativen overkill ist nur weil 2 Personen im Haushalt vorhanden sind immer noch nicht bewiesen das nicht einer der beiden FL von 2 Computern aus spielt.


Additionally. It might help if you start to use different names so other players see that you are two different persons.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 27.07.10 22:05
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

in short:

Zitat:
It is hard to discern if someone is one person with 2 chars or not.

Beside the technicaly restrictions like formation and so on, couples should take care that they deffend Bases only with 2 Fighters.

Fighter + Trader or Fighter and Capship combined will be banned or warned without any background check.

Also it is suspicious if someone has no "FL live".
Everybody should have their own IDs.
Char-sharing or in generall shared IDs are a bad sign.

Everything else is allowed.
But when it is obviously that some one is abuseing the system we will interfere as one sees fit.

This rule is an ambiguous clause - but it does not work an other way.
When someone has a better solution: tell us.

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Zuletzt bearbeitet von [APHEX] am 28.07.10 21:54, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 27.07.10 23:22
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Thank you, Aphex

Got it.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 29.07.10 16:01
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Why are your chars used by two different computers?
>Well, the point is that we don't separate our PCs on that is yours one and that is mine. I mean when we watch a movie for a example,
>Dober may use anyone in order to check base status or else. We do not hide things from eachother. It's normal to have all his IDs to me, and
>all my data to him. Actually, it makes sense on recovery issues. Nothing me to add on here, I hope every family lives in that way in general.

Additionally. It might help if you start to use different names so other players see that you are two different persons.
>Ok. We will take this in account. Thank you.
>Hearty thanks to Aphex too, for translation. We will follow the rules.

Thanks,
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 30.07.10 14:26
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Okay, enough talked -- unbanned
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 30.07.10 16:54
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

mda.... ich habe keine Worte
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