Introduction of HF Adv. Barrier Shield

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Du kannst mit jeder Schildbrecherwaffe auch nur 3,03 mal pro Sekunde schießen, wenn's Spaß macht.^^

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im not reading the whole topic beaue i am half asleep right ow but i aggree, i thouth of asking for the brrier shield some time ago

i also want it ingame

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DesertEagle hat folgendes geschrieben:

im not reading the whole topic beaue i am half asleep right ow but i aggree, i thouth of asking for the brrier shield some time ago

i also want it ingame

dein kopf liegt schon auf der tastatur? Mr. Green

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~Delta-Proxima~ hat folgendes geschrieben:

Ich denke nicht, dass es sinnvoll ist. Es wurden schließlich bis auf die Nova meine neuen Waffen eingeführt. Und die ist gegen BS gedacht.

Man sollte es so lassen wie es ist.

so lassen is doch balanced :-P

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I'd vote against it;

Firstly: How many of you honestly (

) thought about the efficiency against shields when you decided on a setup for the first time? How many of you honestly changed it later when you found out about efficiencies?

I think the reasons for this are quite clear, when you look at what the FL weapon DB 2.0 (from TLR) tells us (I extracted only the details on lv 10 and 9 weapons):

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

I think it is easy to see, that the nomad blasters/cannons do the most damage per second (DPS) of all weapons in the list. Additionally, they don't consume any energy, which makes it easier to use weapongroups/desynchronised weapons because you don't have to re-desynchronise them all the time, since you can simply keep on shooting without worrying about energy.

From that I conclude, that probably very few people would consider changeing nomads to anything else. (you also get used to the refirerate, at least I do..)

OK; so lets look at the lv 9 weapons:
all the anti-shield weapons are pulse-based anyway, so people flying lv 10 ships would most probably stick to tizonas. Even if the shield is effective against a pulse weapon and weak against weapon X (i.e. weapon X would do more damage on the shield than tiz), i still can't find any weapon X that would do more netto-damage to the shield than the tizona... OK; you might argue that you gain more hull-damage if you used another weapon... which is why many people use 1-2 krake+tiz e.g.

Notice also the -in my opinion- HUGE drops in damage per second if you go from a krake to a skyblast, or even lower. You can also see a big drop in efficiency if you'd change to a reaver or hornviper. If you are about to change 1-2 weapons that might not matter, but if you change your whole setup...

So what would the making-available of the lv 10 mole-shield do? Nothing in my opinion.

Zitat:

The Adv. Protector offers slightly better protection vs. Laser, Photon and Pulse than the Adv. Brigandine. For example if you shoot with one single Tizona at the Adv. Protector shield, this would break down after 5,93 shots. One Tizona needs "only" 5,56 shots to make the Adv. Bringadine collaps. After all both shields collaps after 6 hits of a single Tizona. This calculation helps you to understand the remark "slightly better protection".

Nomad guns are equal efficient to all kind of shields. This means the higher shield strength of the Adv. Brigandine offer much more protection against Nomad guns, than the Adv. Protector.

Even worse the Barrier shield: in most of the cases the Barrier, best currently available Molcecular shield, cannot match neither with the Adv. Brigandine nor with the level 8 Adv. Protector. That's why nobody uses it on a VHF.

So the only possibility to introduce some variety is to introduce the Adv. Barrier Shield!

I don't quite understand the logic between the last 2 steps.

Zitat:

This would increase the users of other gun types and encourage the pilots for additional tests.

why? From the data and explanation I cannot see any point in changeing more than MAX 1 weapon in my configuration to be honest. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though

Oh and by the way... I use the lv 8 gravitation shield, but mainly for historic reasons (got owned by a templer like 3 years ago on gemini who was only using skyblasts... after that I changed my shield to the gravi shield, and have used it ever since. I don't care too much about whether or not it offers more protection; the effects are nicer anyway)

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The great TLR Database does not include the bonus/malus system of the shield types into their calculations.
Dependend on shield type the different gun types have either a 20% bonus, behave neutral (no bonus/malus) or get a 20% malus in efficiency.

That's why a Wyrm 2 does more shield damage per second to a Molecular shield (1185 points) than a Kraken 2 to a Positron shield (1172). This is just an example.

The level 9 Molecular shield is only interesting for pilots who want to arm their Hammerhead or Centurion whith a fairly working shield without spending money for the Titan.

For a level 10 fighter the Barrier shield is in little cases the second best choice, in most of the cases it comes in third. So it's more or less completly bland for Eagle/Seth/Titan/Sabre pilots.

That's why I also agree to give the Adv. Barrier a chance - then you really have got a choice.

Back to the Wyrms Mr. Green

:
I would affirm shooting with a combination of Wyrms/Cannons with only 3 volleys per second requires better aiming skills, than the 4 volleys/sec Kraken/Blaster combination.

Btw. I would love to see you with your Adv. Protector in a band of Nomad fighters... Rolling Eyes

Edit:
the calculation of TLRs great database regarding the DpS (I guess damage per second is quite pathetic, because so can only cause shield damage or hull damage, but not both at the same time. So this is not a feasible levelling of how good a gun performs.

Next: the damage the Nomad guns cause at a Graviton shield is less than the Kraken 2 does.

And last (at least for now):
you always have to calculate the whole volley of 6 or 7 guns and the damage it causes at your opponent. A volley of equally fast gun projectiles either hits or doesn't hit the opponent. There is no "3 guns hit, the rest misses". That's why calculations on single gun effects on the enemy's shield or hull reflect only a part of the truth.

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I'd like to try it. The shield grants one more option to chose from, without seriously conflicting with ballancing issues. The worst thing that could happen is that the attacker has to mount another anti shield gun, so we might see some more 2xTiz, 1xMissile, 3xNomads users. Or more Seth / Sabre Pilots with 1xTiz, 1xMissile, 4xNomads and 1xRapier Turret config.

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Aquila~Heliaca hat folgendes geschrieben:

That's why a Wyrm 2 does more shield damage per second to a Molecular shield (1185 points) than a Kraken 2 to a Positron shield (1172). This is just an example.

yup; thats why I said that you might consider changeing 1-2 guns. Also: do you care about 10 shielddamage, if you have to use different refirerates and weaponspeeds? I think the weaponspeed/refirerate are more important than 10 shielddmg

Zitat:

That's why I also agree to give the Adv. Barrier a chance - then you really have got a choice.

It's a pain to remove though (cashback?)

Zitat:

Back to the Wyrms Mr. Green

:
I would affirm shooting with a combination of Wyrms/Cannons with only 3 volleys per second requires better aiming skills, than the 4 volleys/sec Kraken/Blaster combination.

You don't fire volleys nowadays anyway, you use weapon groups or other methods of desynchronizing weapons, since you increase the probability of hitting... at least most people who I see on rampage do that

Zitat:

Btw. I would love to see you with your Adv. Protector in a band of Nomad fighters... Rolling Eyes

yup I do that. I agree that it's not quite as fun as with the lv 10 shield but I don't really care

Zitat:

Edit:
the calculation of TLRs great database regarding the DpS (I guess damage per second is quite pathetic, because so can only cause shield damage or hull damage, but not both at the same time. So this is not a feasible levelling of how good a gun performs.

true, but it is an indicator imho. I'm happy to learn of better ones

Zitat:

Next: the damage the Nomad guns cause at a Graviton shield is less than the Kraken 2 does.

fair enough.. but nomads do a lot more hull damage. I dunno what is better, 1 tiz 1 krake 4 blaster/cannon or 6 krake's shielddamage wise... (i suspect that there won't be too much of a difference). Then again you have to consider energy... Rolling Eyes

Zitat:

And last (at least for now):
you always have to calculate the whole volley of 6 or 7 guns and the damage it causes at your opponent. A volley of equally fast gun projectiles either hits or doesn't hit the opponent. There is no "3 guns hit, the rest misses". That's why calculations on single gun effects on the enemy's shield or hull reflect only a part of the truth.

yup, which is another point for the krake/nomad/tiz combination: all of them have 600m/s speed - except the krake. if you care a lot about that you could replace the krake with a salamanca, but then you'd do that no matter what shield the enemy is using I suspect. Dunno

HOWEVER, again take into account the weapon groups: if you desynchronise ALL weapons you might well profit from the faster weapons!

Zitat:

The shield grants one more option to chose from, without seriously conflicting with ballancing issues. The worst thing that could happen is that the attacker has to mount another anti shield gun

All anti-shield guns are pulse-based, so you don't have an alternative in that way.

Basically, the only thing that imho the new shield would bring, would be a little less damage done by real antishield guns. TBH.. I'm not a fan of new shields.